I had w i n g s once, and they were s t r o n g. They could carry me above the clouds and into the headwinds, and they never faltered. Not even once. But they were stolen from me.
1) A 16 year old dating a man much older than her is completely different than a woman in her early 30s dating a man much older than her. One relationship is in between a teenager and an adult. The other is in between two adults!
2) The incest argument? Again? This is by far one of the silliest arguments, ffor several reasons. The first being that Milah and Hook were not married, and that Neal never considered Hook as his father. The second is that Neal and Emma are not family. Henry and Emma yes. Neal and Henry, yes. But Neal and Emma, no!
3) Even if Neal didn’t believe in Emma’s superpower, he should have enough respect for her not to tell her, the woman he supposedly loves, that he does, or atleast refrain from outright stating that he doesn’t! And he should know that she is an intelligent woman, and have enough faith to believe her when she sais she isn’t jealous of him, a man she dated over a decade ago who abandonned her in jail pregnant, and another woman.
4) His smile was a mocking type of smile, and I’m sorry, but saying “we’re all messed up” is brushing off her pain. He complains about what his father does to him, but brushes off Emma’s pain when she tells him he did the same thing. I don’t even get how anyone could deny that’s disrespectful! And Neal said way more things that were disrespectful and proved he didn’t believe in Emma!
5) Honestly, about the whole “saw the power inside of you” thing, I don’t really know what the deal with that is, but even if Killian was lying (i’m pretty sure it was just a mistake on the writer’s part, but still…), it doesn’t change the fact that Hook knew about her power, and chose to remind her of that and encourage her. I don’t see how that could be bad, wether or not Hook really saw it. And as for the other things, Rumple and Regina may have given the final blows, but defeating them was a team effort, a team that had Emma as a leader. She had a very big part in defeating them, and Hook reminding her of that is… bad?
6) I don’t think the things that Hook said to Emma, such as “dried up and useless”, were polite. They were disrespectful. But Hook always considered a powerful woman, and the two of them an equal team. You forget that Hook had been betrayed and was angry, and that Cora was also there, so he wasn’t really going to tell her “you’re awesome!”. However, your point is taken. I aknowlege that Hook said some disrespectful things. However, Neal did even more disrespectful things to the woman who he was not enemies with, like Emma and Hook were, but the woman he supposedly loved. Not believing in Emma’s abilities weren’t the only disrespectful things he said. I can make a list, if you want. There were all the other times he brushed off her pain, and the time he yelled at her when last time they saw each other was just before he sent her to jail, and I can list waay more things!
7) I never tried to make Killian look like a saint, as I don’t think he is! But guess what? Neal wasn’t either! And he wasn’t a hero! And the more people try to make it look like he was, the more people remember how he wasn’t!
ppl tend to forget that hook was a villain. all the things he did and said in the past, including pushing emma away to get to rumple, was part of his vendetta to kill the monster who killed his love. he didnt care about emma or cora or anyone but milah at the time… his betrayal of leaving emma behind happened after she chose to leave him with the giant…. so u cant excuse hook for the misdeeds he did to emma when they were enemies….. but u can forgive neal for his misdeeds to emma including betraying her trust and abandoning her when they were supposed to be lovers…including downgrading her gift? he never believed her about it,because he didn’t want to believe it was true. he wanted someone normal, someone NOT from his world, and the idea that she could have a gift that ppl from his world had scared him and he suppressed it more than once i am certain due to his “i never believed that” comment. even when faced with her being from his world he STILL doubted her! STILL put down her feelings…. still made her doubt herself….
but screw logic, right?? neal is perfect.
Neal was just as much of a textbook misogynist as his possessive, wife murdering father (in a less radical way, however; not that he deserves praise for that though) whom Neal only ever (rightly) held accountable for the mistakes Rumple had committed against him. But promptly whitewashed his father’s coldblooded, vicious, sexist slaughter of his own mother. Because according to Bae/Neal’s utterly twisted, skewed, regressive logic a woman who dares to defy conventionally feminine roles, exercise her free will, leave a miserable marriage and confront a toxic idea that she irrevocably belongs to a father of her child is already dead to the world. It being a precise reason why Baelfire equated Milah’s conscious decision to escape his father who mistreated her into clinical depression by his harmful and problematic/badly weighted out and cowardly decisions and incessant scolding of her in regards to whatever conventional duties she didn’t fare with (while failing his masculine ones as a military man, husband and eventually a father in far more drastic ways) with murdering her.
Neal/Bae denied his mother any benefit of her agency and couldn’t acknowledge the fact that a woman is not a social construct belonging to him or Rumple. Or existing with a sole purpose of upholding conventional nuclear family norms. But a person with needs, emotions and ambitions. He equated Hook/Milah’s functional, stable, loving and meaningful relationship to his father’s violent misogynistic murder of his mother.
Neal already developed and cultivated this distinctly sexist mentality at the age of fifteen therefore no wonder he handled his relationship with a sixteen/seventeen year old Emma in such a profoundly repulsive manner. Disturbingly taking advantage of a glaring power imbalance between his legally adult self and a person who was technically still a child.
Unwarranted death penalty a woman received on part of Neal’s oppressive, exploitative and murderous father - all because said woman had the audacity to reclaim a control over her life and love someone else - is the exact reason why Hook understandably strove to subject Rumple to responsibility by attacking him in NY. Because the latter’s position of power absolved him of any consequences for being a sadistic, controlling, malicious, abusive, privilege exploiting, unlimited control pursuing misogynist who kills women for the FACT of romantic rejection and for defying traditional gender roles, not even because Rumple is a villain or criminal. Emma and the rest of Storybrooke citizens - however reluctantly - endorsed Rumple’s agenda thus supporting an oppressor whose misogynistic crimes were promptly ignored by everyone BUT Hook.
The latter resorted to extreme and undeniably inappropriate methods of targeting Rumple, was rightly treated like a criminal, punched in a face repeatedly, defeated and shackled. Were there cuffs on Rumple’s wrists for brutally slaying his wife and a mother of his child seconds after she dared to say he didn’t own her love - he, a man who made her life miserable? On Neal’s wrists for corrupting, impregnating and setting up a minor for his crime? Hook is the only one who took responsibility and faced consequences for his problematic choices and his actions were dictated by a place of disadvantage whereas Rumple and Neal’s were dictated by a place of power they held over their romantic partners whose agency they consistently disregarded.
It’s irrelevant whether Neal was 24 or 124, what IS relevant is the fact that he was a grown man engaging in a sexual affair with a minor. Which is universally qualified as sexual abuse, to apply an umbrella term seeing as I’m not sufficiently knowledgeable on the law system in US to determine whether Neal is or isn’t guilty of statutory rape. He IS, however, guilty of a sexual intercourse with a person under the age of 18 which is classified as sexual abuse.
Additionally, Neal is guilty of blackmailing a minor into conceding to further romantic interactions with him by threatening to expose a socially unadjusted, runaway, homeless orphaned teenage girl in a position of absolute economical, financial and psychological disadvantage as a car thief while being one himself. Underage Emma stole for survival whereas Neal, an adult white male in middle twenties in the First World country resorted to high profile robbery and criminality due to sabotaging the stability of his employment because a person in charge of a certain expensive property was “a drunk” and said property was “asking to get took”. He deflected the blame and placed it on another person whom he had wronged by his criminal acts which is a textbook victim blaming. Moreover, that “drunk” most likely needed that job because he was NOT inclined to convert into a sexual abuser of minors who uses said minors as accomplices in crimes he initiates in order to get away with said crimes like Neal proceeded to do upon meeting Emma.
When adult stumbles upon a socially marginalized underage orphan with no support system, residence, guardians or income they ought to contact the child services, NOT get sexually involved with them.
(1)24 year old Neal proceeded to blackmail teenage Emma into a date, break into private territory of it’s owners with her thus risking her life for the sake of personal entertainment, encourage Emma’s acts of petty crime knowing it was her only way of survival. As opposed to him who CHOSE this type of life style due to his corruptness and irresponsibility.
Used her assistance in illegal acts arranged by him, emotionally manipulated Emma into reacquiring his previously stolen property by threatening to break up with her self confidence lacking, abandonment issues burdened self and endorsing her plan of placing her well being and safety in danger on behalf of getting him out of trouble with the law seconds later. Which qualifies Neal’s actions as a blatant psychological blackmail and ultimatum seeing as if he had been serious about the break up plan he would have followed through it.
He then proceeded to listen to unstable, shady stranger on street and set up his underage girlfriend for a crime she had helped him to conveniently get away with due to being emotionally devoted to him because of her place of psychological hopelessness. Not before unknowingly and carelessly impregnating her due to outrageous irresponsibility concerning his sexual activities with minors while being a man in his twenties.
Neal felt entitled to rob a person he was in established romantic relationship with of agency by deciding her fate with another man and choosing to inflict irreversible psychological trauma on her. To subject a seventeen year old girl to months in jail (place that irreparably scars and shatters young individual’s psyche even if they escape the horrors of prison system such as being sexually exploited or physically mistreated by inmates) and a decade of mental agony by betraying and abandoning her without a notice. Making her live with extra burden of considering herself unloved, unneeded and used and staging it as though he merely took advantage of her (which wasn’t far from the truth, because “the truth” only includes an additional factor in a form of daddy issues Neal, as a mature adult, was supposed to get over after centuries of absurdly dwelling on them - and yes, I am saying this as a person whose empowered father ALSO left me alone on streets of unfamiliar place to fend for myself at the age of thirteen).
Instead of assisting Emma in her mission due to being extensively knowledgeable on Enchanted Forest environment and residents which Emma was bound to encounter in Storybrooke, ones whose identities she wasn’t aware of but Neal was; or at the very least breaking up with her on decent terms, leaving her his contacts and explaining himself;
instead of being reasonably repulsed by his own actions, turning himself in, bailing Emma out by using the money she helped him to obtain by selling the watches he stole previously; making sure she doesn’t give a birth to his baby in a prison hospital while chained to bed and undergoing a panic attack because she was a socially unprotected orphan with a criminal record imposed on her by her dismissive adult boyfriend; with no means to support herself, let alone a child;
instead of at the very least dutifully keeping a track of her life to be AWARE of the fact that he has procreated a baby with a minor (not that a woman is defined by fertility and reproductive capabilities or that it suddenly becomes acceptable to inflict permanent mental traumas on her if she hasn’t conceived a child with you. Or, as in case with Neal, if you don’t KNOW she has conceived because of your appalling dismissal of her agency or the need for protection);
instead of taking it upon himself to make sure that pathetically, pitifully insufficient amount of money Neal “generously” trusted an unreliable stranger (who introduced himself as Pinocchio, a character widely known for his tendency to be selfish and deceptive) to transfer to Emma in order to buy her forgiveness (rather than work for it), ease his own consciousness and - to quote Neal directly - “move on” actually makes it’s way to her bank account; not that it would have compensated for unalterable emotional damage an underage girl experienced because of an entitled, agency disregarding adult, sexual abuser and a son of a wife murdering misogynist; who had no problem with his farther killing his mother for daring to escape a toxic situation said father created. And that sum of money most certainly would not have been enough for a socially marginalized, orphaned, unemployed teenage girl with a criminal record to get her life back on track, let alone being up a child on her own.
Instead of doing any of the above and opting for any of those perfectly accessible choices Neal resorted to the most gruesome, horrifying way of traumatizing his underage partner. Leaving her entirely alone in the world, at mercy of unstable drinker, covering all the traces so that she wouldn’t be able to seek him out and demand explanation. Even though Emma did, in fact, seek Neal out in Tallahassee, waiting for him to come back to his senses and maybe behave like a person who has a iota of self awareness and dignity to face her.
Which Neal didn’t bother doing even upon receiving the post card from August because on top of being unable to maturely and constructively work through his daddy issues he also was incurably unwilling to take accountability for betraying and severely traumatizing a woman he claimed to love. Just as he chose against devotedly supporting Emma in liberating her persecuted, oppressed and cursed family. Which was terrorized precisely BECAUSE his father was determined to reunite with HIM after Neal made entitled demands and unwisely expected his power hungry parent to part with his fearsome place of privilege and jump through the portal with him.
If Neal had faced Rumple in Storybrooke the latter would have told Emma how to break the curse because he proved to be willing to go any lengths to gain Neal’s forgiveness. If Neal had remained by Emma’s side they would have raised Henry together instead of the kid being brought up by a mass murdering political tyrant and a rapist.
If Neal had behaved like a “kindhearted” and “good” person as the comments above unconvincingly attempt to paint him as Emma would not have ended up in a defenseless situation, blackmailed by Neal’s murderous father into seeking him out, being blissfully unaware of Neal’s other identity. And because of this defenseless situation that BOTH Rumple and Neal created the latter verbally attacked Emma - HIS victim, a teenage girl he used, sexually abused and betrayed - for bringing his father to NY as if he owned the town. Proceeding to berate and degrade her in front of their mutual son whom Neal didn’t even know he had because of his toxic and cowardly choices. As well as his incapacity to grasp a novel concept that if you have unprotected sex you get a baby which an adult in his twenties would be expected to be familiar with (especially given the fact that he was involved with a minor thus being entirely responsible for the outcome and consequences of this affair).
Neal mocked the only skill Emma was proud of about herself.
Speaking of which, Emma’s “jealousy” was Neal’s misogynistic and deliberately misleading assumption aimed at invalidating legitimate concerns of a woman who was competent enough to detect his fiance’s schemes. Which Neal downplayed as his ex partner - whom he hadn’t been in a relationship with for a decade - supposedly being jealous of the fact that he managed to establish a long term commitment. Whereas she was too thoroughly traumatized by HIS actions to form an effective romantic partnership with anyone due to being mentally scarred by his abandonment of her.
Neal would rather verbally abuse a woman he already psychologically destroyed back when she was legally a child (on top of impregnating and framing her for a crime he had plotted and organized) than acknowledge that his unquestionably remarkable self MIGHT have been deceived by his fiance (suspicion that eventually proved to be correct). That is, after stating that if he had been aware of Emma’s heritage and magical background, everything that made her unique, he wouldn’t have gone near her in the first place.
A man who consistently encourages Emma to embrace said uniqueness and reassures her by instilling confidence in her and inspiring her to be the most powerful version of herself is NOT Neal. Same man - Hook - assisted Emma in reuniting with her family on three occasions. By turning his ship around and letting a sadistic psycho who disabled him and viciously murdered his loved one before his eyes on board of the only home he had in order to help rescuing Emma’s son whom Hook had no moral or legal duties towards or familiar ties to. Traded said only home for the mere possibility of finding Emma not in order to romantically pursue her but because she and her family were confronted with mortal danger and because he knew how important Emma’s loved ones were to her. Hence it being literally the first thing Hook informed Emma about upon reuniting with her.
Hook delivered Emma and Henry home to their nearest and dearest and proceeded to risk his life on daily basis to ensure their well being even when having nothing to gain from it other than verbal slaps and unwarranted accusations and occasional degradation of his physical disability. Hook defended Emma’s parental authority to Henry who questioned her methods to which Hook firmly responded by assuring the boy that Emma acts out of his best interest. This conversation occurred when Emma wasn’t present therefore Hook had no one to impress there. As opposed to Neal who berated Emma’s parenting in order to paint himself in a more flattering, positive light in front of Henry and get away with being deadbeat for eleven years entirely because of his own wrongdoings and mistakes.
Finally, Hook jumped into untested time portal after Emma inadvertently fell through it and helped her fix the consequences of nearly shredding the fabric of time and sabotaging her parents’ meeting, Regina’s defeat and her own existence. All of it happened when Emma and Hook were not even remotely close to being in established relationship. Contrary to Neal who never supported Emma and her loved ones the same way when he had moral obligations towards teenage Emma whom he dated. Or, rather, had sex with because there was no emotional substance to their relationship other than that and a toxic life style they led (Emma out of necessity and Neal due to unwavering irresponsibility). Which Neal was not above perpetuating and encouraging Emma to maintain.
Neal, in fact, indirectly endorsed his father’s oppression of the Charmings by not going to Storybrooke immediately after learning about the curse he was the precise reason for.
Hook supported Emma through thick and thin because he realized he cared about her and was attracted to Emma on physical, emotional, romantic and platonic level and made his attraction known. While repeatedly stating it’s strictly up to her to decide and make a choice concerning how she would like for her dynamic with either him or Neal to progress. Markedly emphasizing that he would personally only be inclined to engage in a relationship with her if “she wants him”.
On the contrary, Neal dismissed the pain he had inflicted on Emma with laughs, giggles and smirks, instantly ignored her outward statement about the trauma he had inflicted on her being so drastic she actively wished for his death. And proceeded to assert he will never stop fighting for her regardless of her wishes thus, again, giving no consideration to her agency.
Hook tried to move on with Tink - even if it was solely on a sexual level because there is nothing wrong with getting sexually involved with someone when you are BOTH adults (as opposed to engaging in a romantic affair with a teenage girl) - like a mature man. After stepping away so that Neal and Emma could work through their issues and get together on Henry’s behalf. But only if EMMA wanted it (which is what Hook boldly addressed to Neal because he’s not a female agency dismissing misogynist like Neal and his father).
Hook never claimed he was glad Emma’s heart was broken - he said he was glad that despite her traumas and adversities she was still capable of pursuing natural experiences, irrespective of whether they are negative or positive - even if said experiences didn’t include HIM. Neal, however, completely ignored the fact that Walsh was a scheming, backstabbing minion of an ambitious, psychotic Wicked Witch who nearly killed Emma when she rejected him (hmm, doesn’t it sound familiar? Oh, right, that’s what Neal’s father did to his mother but we’ve already covered that Neal takes no issue with this kind of behavior).
Hook’s comment about enjoyable activities with women wasn’t directed at Emma specifically - it was a blatant, overt admission that he enjoys sex. He then proceeded to confess that with his life on the line he has no way around becoming Emma’s enemy because SHE chose to make him one. After tying him up to a tree to be dismembered by the ogres, blackmailing him into devotedly - and repeatedly - risking his life to help her and the princesses obtain the compass and leaving Hook chained on beanstalk. With no means to defend himself or find a way to subject a man who ruined his life and killed his loved one to justice. Operating under the assumption that a giant who had a massive and boldly admitted history of hatred against humans is not going to kill him. Only to essentially sign Hook a death penalty anyway because he was going to be murdered by Cora the second he sets a foot on the ground if he doesn’t regain her trust and prove his loyalty to her.
Therefore, yes, Hook did retort that one spiteful comment directed at his enemy, a person who betrayed him after he had risked himself to help said person. Emma was his opponent, Hook was an antagonist, they were on two different sides of the conflict and when Hook came up with a tasteless sword jabbing remark he was holding a literal sword because they were fighting and dueling. Not because he was interested in pursuing a sexual intercourse with her (he specifically stated he WOULD have been interested had she not betrayed him but as his life was on the line because of EMMA’S choice to double cross him they could only be enemies at that point).
Emma was Hook’s opponent whom he fought and never dared to touch in any inappropriate manner. They were adults who made a conscious decision to establish antagonistic dynamic and eventually to develop it into friendly and romantic one. Neal was a man who blackmailed a teenage girl to go on a date, had sex with and impregnated her - and a decade later proceeded to belittle her in front of their mutual child. To compare the two instances is the highest degree of ridiculousness.
Hook saved Charming by secretly arranging their ascension to the mountain, without even making Charming himself aware of it. He respected the latter’s wish to not tell Emma and Snow about the poison, continually risked his life to obtain the antidote and was not inclined to tell the group about it until David himself chose to give Hook a credit (and even then Hook was reluctant & hesitant to accept it and attempted to protest).
On the contrary, Neal manipulated his father into inventing the cure for David by doing it demonstratively in front of Emma and in order to get bonus points even though he could have easily talked to Rumple one on one.
Neither Emma nor Hook were obligated to give Regina and Rumple, oppressive tyrants who ruined their lives and murdered their loved ones and/or family members any credits or coddle them during private conversations. The reason why Pan could be defeated was due to Emma’s determination to find her son and Hook’s conscious choice to turn the ship around. Rumple merely adjusted to consequences after his malicious attempt at Henry’s life was interfered with and his murder of his eleven year old grandson was prevented by other people.
Regina was only able to defeat Zelena because Hook brought Emma and Henry to SB after sacrificing everything he had and because Emma separated Neal and Rumple via her magic so that Rumple could inform the group about Zelena’s identity (and the reason WHY the town and entire realm ended up being endangered is because of Neal’s unreasonable, badly analyzed and selfish choice to resurrect his father by disregarding the consequences and at the expense of selling him into Zelena’s slavery. So that he could romantically pursue Emma who in no uncertain terms made it clear she was not inclined to rekindle a relationship with him & stood him up on a date even when Neal, yet again, gave her an ultimatum and tried to emotionally blackmail her into it).
Hook boosted Emma’s self esteem by reminding her of it when she was sidelined and neglected by her own family which completely ignored her ongoing misery and a feeling of not fitting in. Because they were too busy glorifying their persecutor and eliminating Rumple from the list of murder suspects with irrational ease despite his well documented history of violence against women he already manipulated, abused and tried to kill in their youths (category Zelena smoothly fell under).
As far as a blatant fallacy about the supposed “incest” goes this falsehood of an argument would have only been valid if Hook had been blood related to Emma or Henry. His relationship with Milah ended three centuries ago because she was murdered, they were never married and even if they were Hook would have still been entitled to engage in relationships with women who are not blood related to HIM. Even if Milah had a biological sister and Hook had chosen to get together with her after Milah’s death or after breaking up with her it would not have been incest in the slightest because Hook and Milah would not have had familiar ties after their relationship is ended. Hook and Milah never shared custody of Bae therefore the latter cannot be classified as Hook’s stepson. Even if he was it still wouldn’t have been incest for, say, a widower to engage with a woman his stepson was involved with at some point or had mutual children with provided that said woman is not biologically related to him and is no longer involved with said stepson.
That, however, is not the case as far as Hook’s relationship with Emma go because A) Hook and Milah were not married, Bae was not in Hook’s custody and Hook had no parental rights to him B) Hook got romantically involved with Emma when she and Neal were not in a relationship for a decade (not that Neal’s relationship with Emma has anything to do with her romantic partnership with Hook though - because, again, Hook had no familiar ties to Neal and no blood relation to Emma thus completely invalidating the incest nonsense).
otp challenge: seven scenes - [2/7] Hook, wake up! Killian! (3x20)
I had terrible self-confidence when I was younger. I was paranoid about being too skinny, I had no boobs and looked like a boy. It got to the point where I wouldn’t wear short sleeves because I hated my skinny arms. I remember filming my first scene in bikini and I cried and cried. But, as I’ve got older and met some new mates who helped boost my confidence, I’ve accepted that everyone is beautiful in different ways.
swan meme → [3/8] quotes ;
More of Olaf dressed as Disney’s Leading Gentlemen!!!!
Thanks, doll, much appreciated <3 Stay as marvelously brilliant as you are and have a magical day :)